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 Post subject: Re: InWorldz Viewer 2 Beta (mesh-enabled)
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 9:11 am 

Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 12:47 pm
Posts: 1125
Folks have already posted about the issue with group chat windows.... and the text not appearing.

Two more:

When flying, the up arrow works fine, the down arrow does not.

And when posting in notices, using the copied map coordinates does not result in a clickable TP.

Think I'll go back to 2.2.1

Taika


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 Post subject: Re: InWorldz Viewer 2 Beta (mesh-enabled)
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:28 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:49 am
Posts: 2054
[IMPORTANT EDIT FROM SNOOTS: This entire post was misinformed and off-base and completely wrong, as the following posts reveal. My apologies to Cinder and the Firestorm team for making wrong assumptions. I'll try to pull my socks up in the future. Leaving this post intact and otherwise unedited so that it doesn't confuse the thread-flow... and to demonstrate how bad I can mess up when I really put my mind to it.]

Just a brief thought:

If the numerous problems with 2.2.2 came from Firestorm, maybe what we need to do is go back to 2.2.1.752 (or woteber that number was) and do our own dev work. Seriously, on this one it looks like we took half a step forward and 15 steps back. Not to mention the potential for being sabotaged by another dev group not related to Inworldz. (Not accusing, just mentioning a possibility. There is prior case of untrustworthy viewer devs.)

Seems like this release was a bomb rather than a benefit. Pretty much everyone who's tried it (including myself) is posting they're going back to 2.2.1. So seems to me we should just start from that version and forge ahead ourselves. I trust McCabe. The Firestorm team isn't pro-Inworldz (they don't even include Inworldz in their grid list), I don't know their devs, and don't feel comfy with importing code from a group that evidently isn't Inworldz-friendly.

Just sayin'.


Last edited by Snoots Dwagon on Wed Aug 28, 2013 9:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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 Post subject: Re: InWorldz Viewer 2 Beta (mesh-enabled)
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 6:10 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2013 4:45 pm
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The problems in 2.2.2 do not, in fact, come from the Firestorm team. If you'll have a look at https://bitbucket.org/inworldz/inworldz-viewer/commits/all you can see that the only changes made between 2.2.1 and 2.2.2 were made by McCabe and Avian, so it can hardly be blamed on Firestorm. We're forging ahead with our own release, which includes a wealth of new OpenSim support already, but I'd happily help with any issues the Inworldz team are having with our codebase if they simply reach out to me. I do the same for other Firestorm-based viewers and the invitation is open to anyone.

As the lead OpenSim developer for the Firestorm Project, I want nothing more than to see the open metaverse thrive and flourish, and this includes Inworldz. So here I am on record letting you know that I am pro-Inworldz and Inworldz-friendly.

The reason Inworldz isn't included in our default grid list is because, mainly, of a bug that affects every viewer2/3 based viewer when disconnecting on logout. There are several other bugs related to group chats, inventory loading, world map, etc that are unresolved and Inworldz specific. I had been in contact with Jim Tarber almost a year ago about the issues, and he told me they would be fixed in upcoming simulator releases. I never heard back from Jim about the fixes and then found in a round about way that Firestorm had been forked into Inworldz Viewer. So it would be safer to say that we reached out to help and our help was unwanted. C'est la vie.


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 Post subject: Re: InWorldz Viewer 2 Beta (mesh-enabled)
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 7:42 pm 
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Hello Cinder,

Welcome to the InWorldz forums, and I'm sorry that you came into a thread due to a baseless assumption. I for one trust the Firestorm team, especially you, and thank you for your work and dedication to the OpenSim Firestorm project.

Is there any way I can help facilitate communication between yourself, McCabe and the server team here? I wasn't aware there were issues specific to our grid preventing us from being on your grid list. Furthermore, the InWorldz fork does seem to run mostly fine here, so I suspect many of them may be resolved at this point (except the hang on logout issue).

If there is a way we can work together for the betterment of both of our codebases as well as advancing viewer tech in general (with projects such as the deformer and others coming) I would love to pursue it more wholeheartedly.

Thanks again


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 Post subject: Re: InWorldz Viewer 2 Beta (mesh-enabled)
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 8:29 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 7:07 pm
Posts: 7936
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
CinderBiscuits wrote:
The problems in 2.2.2 do not, in fact, come from the Firestorm team. If you'll have a look at https://bitbucket.org/inworldz/inworldz-viewer/commits/all you can see that the only changes made between 2.2.1 and 2.2.2 were made by McCabe and Avian, so it can hardly be blamed on Firestorm.
I want to confirm what Cinder is saying here too... Sometimes we're a bit loose with wording how we picked up problems when we merged in updates from a particular Firestorm release. That doesn't mean a particular problem is a Firestorm bug or comes from there; it only means that our merge of the update didn't go well. This is because the InWorldz variant is different enough, or because the process has some subtle difference here.

In the case of 2.2.2, McCabe has found that the problems seem to result from a single fairly small bug in the build which is causing a lot of code to think it's connected to SL (this the LSL bridge, the limits, etc). This has already been fixed. McCabe should have an update coming. And as I understand it, it is not something that the FS folks need to pick up, because it is not their bug. (Even if it were, there are a lot of goodies in each update; bugs can get fixed. In this case though, it was our bug. Merging a lot of changes is not easy; I just spent a full week trying to merge our own code from the main trunk into a bugfix-only release candidate to precede the Thoosa/vehicles update. That merge was very painful.)
Quote:
We're forging ahead with our own release, which includes a wealth of new OpenSim support already, but I'd happily help with any issues the Inworldz team are having with our codebase if they simply reach out to me. I do the same for other Firestorm-based viewers and the invitation is open to anyone. As the lead OpenSim developer for the Firestorm Project, I want nothing more than to see the open metaverse thrive and flourish, and this includes Inworldz. So here I am on record letting you know that I am pro-Inworldz and Inworldz-friendly.
That's great to hear. I mentioned your name to the founders yesterday when I saw it was associated with the export work. I appreciate your support and know we can do more to support each other. We have common interests and goals.
Quote:
The reason Inworldz isn't included in our default grid list is because, mainly, of a bug that affects every viewer2/3 based viewer when disconnecting on logout. There are several other bugs related to group chats, inventory loading, world map, etc that are unresolved and Inworldz specific. I had been in contact with Jim Tarber almost a year ago about the issues, and he told me they would be fixed in upcoming simulator releases. I never heard back from Jim about the fixes and then found in a round about way that Firestorm had been forked into Inworldz Viewer. So it would be safer to say that we reached out to help and our help was unwanted. C'est la vie.
Sorry, that last sentence is definitely not accurate. My understanding was that there were three bugs that were interfering with you including InWorldz in the list:
- the logoff/disconnect "hang"
- a v2/v3 search implementation
- a v2/v3 maps implementation
We've only gotten to the point where we have resolved those fairly recently; we're still struggling to get a good IW baseline build that can be our new primary viewer. We can't really fault FS for not including us when our own viewer continued to suffer these problems. But we're almost there now.

I'm not a viewer guy so I didn't really realize you expected me to get back to you when they were resolved (and the disconnect problem is still visible in some viewers). I thought the idea was that we would fix these three problems, and you would see about adding InWorldz back into the list.

I find it almost never hangs anymore, but sometimes presents the "unexpected disconnect" (View IMs) dialog, sometimes exits cleanly, depending on the viewer. We had a lot of work to do before you would be willing to consider us again. We are sort of at 2.5 out of 3 at the moment. Almost ready. I'm not sure if FS is one of the viewers that still hangs on logout, but I think we'd love to have any help on that you could offer.

Cinder, you have me in Skype. I'm always there if there's any question or any way we can help. I'll check with McCabe on the disconnect thing. (I'm a server guy.) :geek:


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 Post subject: Re: InWorldz Viewer 2 Beta (mesh-enabled)
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 9:03 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2010 6:25 pm
Posts: 287
I've said this elsewhere, but it bears repeating here: I have no interest in any kind of viewer wars, viewer blaming, or anything of that nature, and at best I'd call that kind of rhetoric self-defeating, if not horribly unproductive. We all care about the virtual world platform, and want to make it the best place possible for people. People should focus on that, instead.

Cinder, nice to see you about on InWorldz. I've appreciated the compatibility work you've done, particularly getting your search window going. If you want get a hold of me, you can find me through either bitbucket or through the email on my commit messages. We can talk about viewer stuff, and generally be friendly, which is what I'm interested in too.

The chat bug, for those who've been wondering, was my fault. A late-night commit I should've reviewed more thoroughly before pushing and moving on. The fix'll go up as soon as the builds are done tonight.


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 Post subject: Re: InWorldz Viewer 2 Beta (mesh-enabled)
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 9:36 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:49 am
Posts: 2054
CinderBiscuits wrote:
As the lead OpenSim developer for the Firestorm Project, I want nothing more than to see the open metaverse thrive and flourish, and this includes Inworldz. So here I am on record letting you know that I am pro-Inworldz and Inworldz-friendly.


Then you haz my personal and public apologies Cinder. I made the mistake of listening to rumor and judging on evidence when I should have gone right to the source (namely the Firestorm folks) and made polite inquiry. So I humbly and earnestly apologizes. My bad.

To 'splain a bit and help you understand I wasn't anti-Firestorm or looking to pick a fight... a number of things had gone wrong with v2.2.2, things which had worked fine in 2.1.x. These weren't minor or limited to one area, but spread all over (group chat, linking dropping back to 255, and more). I had read in several places that our viewer was "based on Firestorm" and that updates were being made from Firestorm... and actually had someone who is usually reliable tell me that there was a likelihood the Firestorm team was "against Inworldz" and that's why Inworldz wasn't in the grid listing. edit: That was a baseless accusation and unfair to Firestorm and the people who work hard on it.

So I just put 2 and 2 and 2 together... and came up with totally the wrong conclusion. So thank you for your very kind and polite reply here, for assuring us that's not the case and again, my sincere apology for even bringing it up. I am gonna go back and add a line to my first post (without editing the post itself) telling people I messed up, so the question doesn't even take root. And my very best wishes to Firestorm team and hopes of very good relations in the future.

:notfair: wot I sed. BAD DWAGON!


Last edited by Snoots Dwagon on Wed Aug 28, 2013 9:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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 Post subject: Re: InWorldz Viewer 2 Beta (mesh-enabled)
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 9:44 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:49 am
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As follows-up in case there any question:

I am glad that merging with Firestorm allowed us to come to v2.x. And I am very impressed with what McCabe and the Firestorm people have accomplished (despite earlier stupid post). I got to test 2.1.752 and it just rocked, even better than 2.1.740... which was an awesome update of itself.

Despite the bugs, I am enthusiastic about Inworldz v2.x and after reading above about how a relatively small bug can affect an entire viewer... I will be far more cautious about how I view Viewer updates in the future. Stuff happens, 'specially in the world of software. I shoulda knowed better.

Just wanted to say both to McCabe and Firestorm people:
:hug:

I'm sorry

and :tup:



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 Post subject: Re: InWorldz Viewer 2 Beta (mesh-enabled)
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 2:08 am 
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Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2010 6:25 pm
Posts: 287
Fixed binaries are up for all three platforms: v2.2.3.


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 Post subject: Re: InWorldz Viewer 2 Beta (mesh-enabled)
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 2:47 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2011 3:41 am
Posts: 2392
I have a question that might have already been reply to so apologies if case.

I'm used to "add" alpha layers for mesh clothes.
This works well in SL with Firestorm as well as Cool VL.

I found out it did not work here last time I tried demos where I had an alpha for a skirt and one for a top. Principle is that you can mix and match mesh clothes. And wear the number of alphas needed.

And this should work fine normally.

In this case, more simple, both demos were of same creator. So were alphas.

When I was "adding" ( not wearing ) the skirt alpha, the top alpha was gone and vice versa. No good.

I have another mesh dress where only one alpha is needed.
So I had not seen this behavior in IW till I tried those demos.

Is this still something not implemented server side.
Whatever the viewer ?

I'm on:
Cool VL Viewer 1.26.8 (18) Jul 20 2013 14:46:11 (Cool VL Viewer)



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