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 Post subject: Re: Viewer 3 unusable for 'serious' virtual work
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 6:32 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 7:07 pm
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Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
I didn't really follow (pretty much any of) that, except that I'll say that if you notice something you'd like different about the latest shoes, that is what the 3.0.x thread is all about. Speak up, as clearly as possible, with a specific suggestion for something you'd like to see different, so that we can take a look at the feasibility and development cost and come up with a list of changes to make for the next shoe season. :geek:


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 Post subject: Re: Viewer 3 unusable for 'serious' virtual work
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 7:24 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2010 2:22 pm
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Location: Pacific NW
Jim wrote:
Part of that came from our move to increase the 3x3 neighbor regions (1 neighbor each side) to 5x5 (2 neighbors, 512m neighborhood)

As an aside, I am curious as to why that was done, since it seems to have possibly caused some issues.

Chipping in also to say I have not had any of the vertex buffer crashes with FS for at least 2 versions, maybe more. And, noting that it is impossible for me to log in here with the 64 bit IW3 viewer-it crashes on login every time. I have to use the 32 bit one. 64 bit FS works fine for me.



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 Post subject: Re: Viewer 3 unusable for 'serious' virtual work
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 7:47 pm 
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AstoriaL wrote:
Jim wrote:
Part of that came from our move to increase the 3x3 neighbor regions (1 neighbor each side) to 5x5 (2 neighbors, 512m neighborhood)
As an aside, I am curious as to why that was done, since it seems to have possibly caused some issues.
It was one of the ways we were incompatible with SL (which does it that way) and was on our work list for at least 5 years. As the proper SL-compatible region visibility rules were implemented, increasing the neighbor range was done as a first step. Also it was near the time when we redid physics and physical vehicles and other features that supported vehicles (such as 512m draw distances) were given a bit of a priority boost.

AstoriaL wrote:
Chipping in also to say I have not had any of the vertex buffer crashes with FS for at least 2 versions, maybe more. And, noting that it is impossible for me to log in here with the 64 bit IW3 viewer-it crashes on login every time. I have to use the 32 bit one. 64 bit FS works fine for me.
A 64-bit viewer will have a much better chance of not actually running out of memory when this problem presents itself; instead just using a lot of it, perhaps slowing down, but remaining running. A viewer shouldn't really need more than about 1GB of memory and if it's using more, it is probably the texture download queue and other temporary uses of large amounts of memory. That will probably cause the crash in a 32-bit viewer. In a 64-bit viewer, it may be trading off performance (by using the pagefile to swap memory) rather than hitting a hard limit on total address space usage (which is different than committed physical memory).


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 Post subject: Re: Viewer 3 unusable for 'serious' virtual work
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 9:31 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2010 2:22 pm
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Location: Pacific NW
Jim Tarber wrote:
A 64-bit viewer will have a much better chance of not actually running out of memory when this problem presents itself...

My 64 bit version did formerly crash with it, a long time ago when that problem first was happening. But not any more, which seems to corroborate Ark's stats.



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 Post subject: Re: Viewer 3 unusable for 'serious' virtual work
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 9:34 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 7:07 pm
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Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
AstoriaL wrote:
Jim Tarber wrote:
A 64-bit viewer will have a much better chance of not actually running out of memory when this problem presents itself...

My 64 bit version did formerly crash with it, a long time ago when that problem first was happening. But not any more, which seems to corroborate Ark's stats.
Good. Mine's been stable as well, but it's also the 64-bit viewer and I've been using IW3 most of the time. You might want to take a look at memory usage of the viewer anyway, just to see if it's more than, say, 2GB, especially at IDI and in content-rich environments. It could be a sign of a problem that is mostly contained, not fixed.


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 Post subject: Re: Viewer 3 unusable for 'serious' virtual work
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 10:56 pm 
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I give in the IW3 thread a more inclusive analysis of the iW3 interface problems, including burning eyes, bad feeling, illogical menus, etc.
http://inworldz.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=97&t=21636&p=210202#p210202



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 Post subject: Re: Viewer 3 unusable for 'serious' virtual work
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 1:02 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 3:08 am
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Location: Wales
Jim Tarber wrote:
You might want to take a look at memory usage of the viewer anyway, just to see if it's more than, say, 2GB, especially at IDI and in content-rich environments. It could be a sign of a problem that is mostly contained, not fixed.

Not sure I agree - if the viewer wants to use 3+ Gb I have no problem with it, as long as it doesn't keep demanding more and more till it runs out of space - the more it can keep in main memory, the less it has to either re-fetch from disk or, worse, the server.



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 Post subject: Re: Viewer 3 unusable for 'serious' virtual work
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 2:55 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 7:07 pm
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Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
I was referring to a difference from what I usually see as typical. I've also argued for more memory usage if it's available, e.g. for caching, however I don't normally see a viewer using much memory. 1.5GB is quite a bit. So if you're seeing 3+ GB, my point is that it might be unusual and a sign of a problem that doesn't happen to lead to a crash.

Although I have no idea what "typical" is for a Linux viewer. Could it really twice as much as a viewer under Windows 10? If you go here: http://places.inworldz.com/Nova/129/127/3050
how much memory does the viewer use? With the 64-bit IW3 viewer, I get about >500MB private working set and a memory commit size that is safely under 1GB:
Image


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 Post subject: Re: Viewer 3 unusable for 'serious' virtual work
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 5:11 am 
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Location: Wales
Might depend on how much memory is installed I suppose, I have 8 Gb.



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