InWorldz

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 Post subject: Re: Viewer 3 unusable for 'serious' virtual work
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 10:00 am 
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What "Riddles"?

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 Post subject: Re: Viewer 3 unusable for 'serious' virtual work
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 10:12 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 7:07 pm
Posts: 7936
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
I use IW3 for all my stuff so the subject is a bit over the top to me. I don't have any problems at all with chat, although the very first thing I always do in all viewers is to enable the chat history window (Ctrl-H) and pop the chat window out into it's own from Conversations. So the chat bar is integrated in that window, doesn't flash, doesn't grab focus, etc.

That said, I know chat input is one of the key fixes in the long-overdue update, because it's a problem for those who don't use it the way I do. It's known, as far as I know it's fixed.

It's been long overdue for a whole bunch of reasons, pretty much equally split:
- partly because InWorldz can't really afford full-time viewer devs so it's some work contracted out from time to time, combined with some volunteer work and a whole bunch of open-source project team work by the Alchemy team.
- partly because LL has been fairly active in the last 6-12 months creating major changes and all of that needs to be merged into the viewer codebase and that has occupied a large chunk of that team's development time.
- partly because they need a list of things to change and someone at InWorldz to coordinate and champion that and I think there was some confusion between Tranq and I on that because I don't have the authority to pay contractors for work but everyone seemed to be waiting for a list of work items to be done (from me since I started the IW 3.0.2 thread). We corrected that about a week or so ago and a list of possible changes was given to our viewer developer.
- most of the work has been in just keeping the codebase up-to-date, with new versions of OSes (especially OS X) and new versions of code from LL, updated/fixed versions of third-party libraries, etc.

So this list is being reviewed with time estimates for work to add to the upstream LL viewer code changes and the other platform-dependent work. Hopefully we'll finalize that soon and get an updated IW viewer into your hands (we should probably call it 4.x since everyone else with the same code base has done that).

rosielavochkin wrote:
With apologies to whoever the IW3 viewer dev is - but why not just rebrand Firestorm and be done with it? The SL3 viewer is bad enough - why repeat the same mistakes?
Because that would be repeating the same mistakes. That's the mistake we made with IW2 and why we could not produce another update there. Firestorm is the kitchen sink of viewers. It is the dumping pot for every. damn. feature. known. to. mankind. As a result, it's very difficult to merge in updates from LL and even more difficult to keep the places we diverge in sync on updates. We could repeat that same mistake and not be able to build the viewer anymore like we did in IW2 (which was Firestorm with IW-specific changes). The IW3 work is more targeted and heavily managed changes from a common third-party base (Alchemy). That viewer is a bit too close to the SL viewer for many IW/OpenSim folks so we've had some changes made to make it more consistent with historical IW viewers. It's much closer and the viewer folks can whip up a new build in about a day or two of work. So we learned from that mistake and didn't repeat it by just going with Firestorm again. The delays less technical now and more in the area of not having a project manager who is driving a schedule with specific feature changes. About a week ago, I stepped in to fill that void with what was essentially Benski's list, looking for time/work estimates on each point. We want to include some of the items regardless of the cost (chat, area search, export/import, etc) so that will mostly be the determining factors for any new schedule. But they will get it done, rebuild the viewer (because unlike IW2, they still can), and deliver it for us. I'll provide some more info when we've gotten feedback on the list and have a rough idea of schedule and items.


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 Post subject: Re: Viewer 3 unusable for 'serious' virtual work
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 10:16 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 7:07 pm
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Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
Yichard wrote:
The reason why the Inworldz developpers stopped developping the Inworldz Viewer 2 is that it had become too complicated to maintain (already heavily modified to do firestorm, more a huge memory leak which could not be fixed despite one year of work)

So they derived the IW3 directly from the SL viewer 3, in order to bring the last developments (fitted mesh, materials...)
You were mostly accurate until that sentence. It's much closer to the SL viewer but not direct. It's a variation of Alchemy 4.

To understand things better, see the History and Rationale section of the IW 3.0.2 post.


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 Post subject: Re: Viewer 3 unusable for 'serious' virtual work
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 10:57 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 3:08 am
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Location: Wales
Jim Tarber wrote:
I use IW3 for all my stuff so the subject is a bit over the top to me. I don't have any problems at all with chat, although the very first thing I always do in all viewers is to enable the chat history window (Ctrl-H) and pop the chat window out into it's own from Conversations. So the chat bar is integrated in that window, doesn't flash, doesn't grab focus, etc.

Doesn't work for me - as part of Mentoring, I always need to have the Mentor group and Welcome group chats visible.



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 Post subject: Re: Viewer 3 unusable for 'serious' virtual work
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 10:58 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 2:10 pm
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Thanks Jim for the update and defuzzification :-)



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 Post subject: Re: Viewer 3 unusable for 'serious' virtual work
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 12:46 pm 
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Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 6:58 am
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Arkady Arkright wrote:
Jim Tarber wrote:
I use IW3 for all my stuff so the subject is a bit over the top to me. I don't have any problems at all with chat, although the very first thing I always do in all viewers is to enable the chat history window (Ctrl-H) and pop the chat window out into it's own from Conversations. So the chat bar is integrated in that window, doesn't flash, doesn't grab focus, etc.

Doesn't work for me - as part of Mentoring, I always need to have the Mentor group and Welcome group chats visible.
[x] this! (and other stuff)

[-------------------- soap-box commentary below this line --------------------]

THIS user's opinion: Many who know me know I cite "visual issues" (mostly "skinning") as the biggest reason I don't use "that viewer". I've tried all the optional skins I've been pointed to and, still, I have to log out with a full-blown, migraine-like, headache within ten minutes of logging in on it.
Beyond that, I feel it was/is a disservice to long-standing past/current users to "fuss around" with the familiar functionality of the viewer[s] (interface[?]). ... and no one will convince me (ever) that certain (end-user functionality) changes were 'only' made because "they had to be changed... This thing/function/location of menu listing/selection/etc or that thing/function/location of menu listing/selection/etc couldn't be done any other way.".



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 Post subject: Re: Viewer 3 unusable for 'serious' virtual work
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 12:52 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 30, 2010 12:06 pm
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Location: Netherlands
You know, the worst thing is that I cannot say what exactly the problem is with Viewer 3.

Yes I can tell what I miss featurewise, and I did...

But the main issue is one that I cannot clearly say "that's the problem" because I do not know it.

On a daily base I use Firestorm, for numerous reasons but here comes the biggest clue:

Because I can actually use it.

Yes... that is the clue: I cannot use viewer 3 for an extended period of time

Why?
I don't know, the font? could be... no clue
The colors? No, result is the same on every single skin I tried.
I've even tried modifying my own skin to get close to something I can work with.
To no succes.

But the result is always the same, even with a hugely enlarged interface, that is merely extending the time I can use it from about 15 minutes to maybe... an hour.

But this viewer, gives me burning eyes and a headage.

And this is also the prime reason I no longer use it and actually consider Firestorm superior to the InWorldz 3 viewer.

I know that I am not the only one with this issue.

This needs to be adressed if you ever want to convince me this is the way to go, because right now... I am far from impressed.

And that is a heavy understatement.



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 Post subject: Re: Viewer 3 unusable for 'serious' virtual work
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 1:15 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 2:10 pm
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oh, and by the way, the huge memory leak of IW2 comes from firestorm... and they could never fix it. So it is very likely still in the latest versions of firestorm.
Why just I did crashed several times, lol



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 Post subject: Re: Viewer 3 unusable for 'serious' virtual work
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 1:18 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2011 3:41 am
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Yichard wrote:
So it is very likely still in the latest versions of firestorm.
Why just I did crashed several times, lol


You assume. I never crash with Firestorm for memory reasons.


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 Post subject: Re: Viewer 3 unusable for 'serious' virtual work
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 1:19 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2012 3:59 pm
Posts: 904
Benski wrote:
Why?
I don't know, the font? could be... no clue
The colors? No, result is the same on every single skin I tried.
I've even tried modifying my own skin to get close to something I can work with.
To no succes.

Just out of curiosity, have you ever tried Alchemy itself? I only wonder because that might help identify if it's an Alchemy thing or something done to adapt it for InWorldz Viewer 3. Could help narrow down the issue a bit.


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