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 Post subject: I'z Buying Changes
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:59 am 
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Over the last few months, we've had some issues with fraudulent purchases of I'z being made via stolen credit cards. Massive amounts of I'z purchased with the intent to transfer them to SL and then cashed out there.

Fortunately, Cariama and InBiz worked with us to tighten down their machines, and we have recently made some changes to the way I'z are bought. This will not affect our older residents, but there is now an age limit vs. purchase amount per week allowed.

We did this rather than eliminating the ATM's as we know they are useful to our residents, and would prefer to keep those going. The limits are pretty stringent right now, however, should we see they need to be changed, we will do so. We don't wish to make it difficult for anyone to purchase in our world, but we do wish to protect our currency account and the businesses who provide the ATM services to our residents. As always, we welcome any feedback from our residents on the limitations in place now so we can fine tune it as needed!



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 Post subject: Re: I'z Buying Changes
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:01 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2011 12:49 pm
Posts: 240
Location: The Netherlands
oke, i understand limitations and why you were forced to introduce them. but what are limitations? How much can we purchase/transfer from SL and the other way round?



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 Post subject: Re: I'z Buying Changes
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:26 pm 
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Right now the system is setup as follows:

Age vs Per Day order

< 30 days old = $10
>30 < 90 days old = $25
>90 < 180 days old = $50
> 180 days old = unlimited

I'm also considering looking at amounts of transactions processed and laxing those limits based on transactions processed that are "good" transactions.



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A lot of us grow up and we grow out of the literal interpretation that we get when we're children, but we bear the scars all our life. Whether they're scars of beauty or scars of ugliness, it's pretty much in the eye of the beholder. - Stephen King
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 Post subject: Re: I'z Buying Changes
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:33 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2009 1:12 am
Posts: 217
That sounds like a very reasonable setup to me, Elenia. A company must protect itself against fraud. Looks like you've come up with a method that does so with minimal negative impact on the grid.



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Elf Clan is one of the oldest fantasy groups in VR. We invite you to explore our lands, beginning at our home region of ElvenSong. Or visit our sim-wide high-sky sci fi museum, Replicant City. Enjoy! : )
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 Post subject: Re: I'z Buying Changes
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:51 pm 

Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 2:25 pm
Posts: 1
Quote:
Right now the system is setup as follows:

Age vs Per Day order

< 30 days old = $10
>30 < 90 days old = $25
>90 < 180 days old = $50
> 180 days old = unlimited


I agree with the restrictions, but I do think perhaps is a bit too stringent. I might suggest something along the lines of this ....

< 30 days old = $25
>30 < 90 days old = $50
>90 < 180 days old = $75
> 180 days old = unlimited

I only say this, because I just went to go buy enough IZ's to pay my tier this month, and could not and was only $42.50 real money I needed, so with tiers in mind, and the landlords that are expecting payment, I am making this suggestion. Thank you


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 Post subject: Re: I'z Buying Changes
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:53 pm 
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Joined: Fri May 21, 2010 9:14 am
Posts: 1211
Location: France
I understand the need for protecting the grid.
However, it is making it very difficult for newcomers to pay for their land for instance. I had the problem today for the payment of a full sim...
People don't/can't necessarily use Paypal.

Also, if someone wants to cheat, 180 days would not be a big problem. Many registered months and months ago and altho they are new because they did not stay, their age is old...

The only reply is to ban them! A thief is a thief...



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 Post subject: Re: I'z Buying Changes
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:10 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2009 1:12 am
Posts: 217
Anyraya you bring up a point I've long wondered about, so maybe you can help me understand. In what instances would a person not be able to get a PayPal account?

I'm from the U.S. and getting a PayPal account is fairly easy. All we need is a valid bank account and PayPal is set up in a week. So I'm unacquainted with the kind of user situations in which it would be impossible to acquire a PayPal account. Currently I would tend to distrust someone claiming they "can't" get an account, but I've heard this claim often enough to realize there must be something I'm missing.

Thanks for any info you can provide. : )



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Goooooo INWORLDZ! Gooooo INWORLDZ!
Elf Clan is one of the oldest fantasy groups in VR. We invite you to explore our lands, beginning at our home region of ElvenSong. Or visit our sim-wide high-sky sci fi museum, Replicant City. Enjoy! : )
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 Post subject: Re: I'z Buying Changes
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:45 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 12:31 am
Posts: 1738
Location: Oregon Coast
[quote="Elenia"]Right now the system is setup as follows:

Age vs Per Day order

< 30 days old = $10
>30 < 90 days old = $25
>90 < 180 days old = $50
> 180 days old = unlimited

If I was new I dont think I would stay here if I could only buy $10 a day...My gosh if someone is a seasoned virtual world user, that is like saying sorry!!!! you have to wait until tomorrow to buy your clothes,a pack of skin can cost as much as 6,000 izs, a seasoned user could easily shop 50 bucks in a day if they wanted too, I know this to be a fact from over the hill, I cant even count the times I helped new members that bought everything they needed in a day, plus found a place to live.....some people just know they are going to stay or like this world like I did, I had much of what I needed in the first 24 hours including buying my sim that same day....
I know the founders have to do something, but I think that limit needs to be raised ... or surely there is insurance on stuff like this.... or a why to check like many online bank transactions, they make you wait a few seconds until they run it, then they say your transaction has been com pleated..
I cant believe people like this are already here doing crap......that hurts all of us...



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 Post subject: Re: I'z Buying Changes
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:06 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2009 11:29 am
Posts: 5628
It doesn't matter if it's PayPal or not, this is our website check on it. So before they even go to pay for it, it will do the check.

And yes, the age system is not perfect, this was done to circumvent a particular nasty issue we were having. The system can be far more robust based on number of successful transactions over a period of time as well rather than just age based.

As for banning, would love to, however, there's ways around that as well. When we looked at the full round of what was going on (which has been ongoing for close to 6 months now), there was no way to even track them down via RL as the funds were going out of our world and into others. Since grids don't talk to each other about these potential problems, bringing in law enforcement would be very difficult. I asked about this, believe me. It can be really frustrating when one sees a clear answer of HOW to combat these things by cooperation with others, but apparently that won't be the case. Otherwise, the grids will have to close their atm's to keep this from happening. That is not a wise option we feel at this point.

I hope that helps to clarify, and if you guys have good ideas on making the system robust, we are very open to hearing them :)

@Way, the EU laws make having a PayPal account much more difficult. In trying to sort some of this out I've literally spent hours on the phone with them in regards to how the EU laws and regulations work for PayPal.

@Rain, the amount you see was based on an average of what I see bought by new residents on a daily basis. If it was a $25 average, I would have moved it there. There is also no insurance. When a resident creates multiple accounts, buys $1000's of I'z with stolen credit card, then tries to transfer them all through to another grid in one fell swoop, we take the bite for it. We have been fairly lucky as I've kept a careful watch on this over the last few months, and our ATM providers worked closely with us to tighten their own security down as well. But, the security shouldn't rest solely on them.

With a stolen credit card, the owner of the card calls and reports it as a fraudulent transaction, and while we can fight it, it's not fair to charge them on something like this. So, from our viewpoint, it was better to start with a limits base and expound on it to make it more robust to work with our many residents who are legit buyers.

P.S. @Any - Credit Card transactions to purchase I'z has worked for quite some time now :)



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A lot of us grow up and we grow out of the literal interpretation that we get when we're children, but we bear the scars all our life. Whether they're scars of beauty or scars of ugliness, it's pretty much in the eye of the beholder. - Stephen King
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 Post subject: Re: I'z Buying Changes
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:06 am 
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Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 12:31 am
Posts: 1738
Location: Oregon Coast
then Miss Ele, is there a why to red flag someone like right now that comes in and tries to buy 1000 bucks worth, even 500... and stops it...maybe even lower 300



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