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 Post subject: Stair Weirdness. Bug or IW feature?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 8:02 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 6:25 pm
Posts: 113
I wasn't sure whether to post this here or in the bug report forum and I may copy it over to there later depending on replies.

I've just had a customer buy a house off of me who IM'd me to say that she couldn't walk up a set of internal stairs and a set of external steps. I know IW can get funky about step heights so I had tested all steps/stairs on different sized avatars before packaging and everything was fine.

So I went to her land where she rezzed a new house and sure enough neither of us could walk up the two stairs mentioned. I rezzed a copy and the same thing again. I then TP'd her to the show house (same build version) where she was able to walk up both sets of stairs. I then took her to a build platform where she rezzed her bought copy and again she could walk up both sets. So we went back to her land rezzed it again and once again she and I are unable to walk up the steps!!!

Her land is a private region, ground level is roughly between 0-20m, my sim is mainland and the show house is at 0-10m ground level and the build platform was at 3000m.

So does anyone have any idea what is happening here?



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 Post subject: Re: Stair Weirdness. Bug or IW feature?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 8:30 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 3:08 am
Posts: 4710
Location: Wales
A couple of points :

1) The steepness at which stairs can be climbed depends on the horizontal orientation - e.g. a set of stairs pointing north/south will be climbable, the same stairs pointing east/west won't be (or possibly vice-versa, can't remember exactly).

2) The usual work-round for this is to overlay a sloping transparent ramp over the stairs so it just touches the top of each step, these can be climbed at a much steeper angle than any actual staircase, regardless of orientation.



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 Post subject: Re: Stair Weirdness. Bug or IW feature?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 8:37 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 6:25 pm
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Arkady Arkright wrote:
A couple of points :

1) The steepness at which stairs can be climbed depends on the horizontal orientation - e.g. a set of stairs pointing north/south will be climbable, the same stairs pointing east/west won't be (or possibly vice-versa, can't remember exactly).

2) The usual work-round for this is to overlay a sloping transparent ramp over the stairs so it just touches the top of each step, these can be climbed at a much steeper angle than any actual staircase, regardless of orientation.


Point 1 is a very interesting "feature" and would explain why when I was building it that I did indeed have to put a ramp into one set of stairs and as you have predicted the other two stairs (problem ones) run in the same orientation. Oh well a night of hot fixing tonight. Thanks Ark.



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 Post subject: Re: Stair Weirdness. Bug or IW feature?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:45 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2010 10:03 am
Posts: 3082
The current physics engine, ODE, has anisotropic behavior. The big word of the day: Anisotropy is the property of being directionally dependent. This behavior is one of several reasons ODE utterly sucks, but, it has been tamed considerably for avatar usage, and when the new PhysX arrives, it will fix all those strange problems.

In the meantime, link in invisible ramps to smooth any traversals up or down stairs. ODE has lots of problems with inside corners. It falls apart when it handles an abrupt transition from flat to nearly vertical. In the following photo you can see I place a flat ramp to hide the inside corners. I did not cover the stairs entirely because I wanted to created a slightly bumpy feeling when an avatar goes up or down them.

Stairs with slope assist (transparency mode view)
Attachment:
Stairs assist.jpg



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 Post subject: Re: Stair Weirdness. Bug or IW feature?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:11 pm 
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Balpien Hammerer wrote:
The current physics engine, ODE, has anisotropic behavior. The big word of the day: Anisotropy is the property of being directionally dependent. This behavior is one of several reasons ODE utterly sucks, but, it has been tamed considerably for avatar usage, and when the new PhysX arrives, it will fix all those strange problems.


OK I'm going to bite. What advantage is there in having a differential force between two axes, or for what purpose is this differential more commonly used for?



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 Post subject: Re: Stair Weirdness. Bug or IW feature?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:37 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2010 10:27 pm
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To the best of my knowledge there is no advantage and isn't used for anything but is simply a bug in the ODE engine. Personally I can't think of any advantage or usage of this unless you somehow wanted to make something MC Escheresqe and drive people crazy. (chuckle). I encountered it myself on some ramps on a quad Dragon avatar of mine not being able to go up certain ramps and this was at home.



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 Post subject: Re: Stair Weirdness. Bug or IW feature?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 6:22 pm 
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ODE is bug ridden pile of warmed over code discovered lurking in a rat infested sewer on a plague ridden planet. That's why it is called open sores. :stuck:



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 Post subject: Re: Stair Weirdness. Bug or IW feature?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 12:26 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 3:08 am
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Location: Wales
Balpien Hammerer wrote:
ODE is bug ridden pile of warmed over code discovered lurking in a rat infested sewer on a plague ridden planet. That's why it is called open sores.
Don't hold yourself back like that Balpien, tell us what you *really* feel about ODE... :wink:



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