InWorldz

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 Post subject: Re: Everything gray
PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 9:04 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2010 2:22 pm
Posts: 1755
Location: Pacific NW
No idea if it's related - last night I was jetskiing through our regions - went 2 regions away from where I started and when I came back, got right to the edge of the region and it still did not appear. The land didn't start appearing until I crossed into what appeared to be empty void both in view and on my mini map. then it finally started filling in.

Using latest RC viewer. Culling issue maybe?



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 Post subject: Re: Everything gray
PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 9:28 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 10:51 am
Posts: 817
Location: The Stinking Desert
I don't know if it has been noticeable, but I have been having a hard time of it, for many different reasons, and may have been coming off as a bit snarky.

Y'all have really done me some real good here. Quick, understandable reasons and fixes... I have been 'getting around' to other grids and I can testify that NO other grid has the quality of customer support that IW has.

None of them.

Balpien Hammerer wrote:
* I could have gone all techy/geeky here explaining exactly what was wrong, but suffice it to say that 'messed up' is reasonably accurate.


~LOL~ Hey Bal, did I mention "understandable" answers? "Messed up" is MY level of tech understanding!! :kitty:



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Ferrator Montoya
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 Post subject: Re: Everything gray
PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 12:08 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2010 8:38 am
Posts: 5959
Location: Miami
Hugs for the Ferr- "admitting one has a problem is the first step in solving it" (doesn't hurt to get smacked with a 2x4 at times, either) (love you) :flowers:



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 Post subject: Re: Everything gray
PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 1:20 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:49 am
Posts: 2054
Note: the following is not a rant. Observations only. ;D

Ferrator wrote:
Y'all have really done me some real good here. Quick, understandable reasons and fixes... I have been 'getting around' to other grids and I can testify that NO other grid has the quality of customer support that IW has.

I agree completely with that. The response from Inworldz is typically "as fast as it can be humanly done"... and apathy doesn't even enter the picture.

Tranq wrote:
The only remaining issue I've found is viewer related and has to do with the design of the texture cache. This may or may not be fixed upstream.

I very much hope the viewer cache design is fixed upstream... and asap. Texture cache has been a thorn in the side of VR in general for years. I told LL back in 2005: "A 3D system works only as good as its 2D functions." If the textures don't cache properly, the grid will never work properly. That is part of the system that may need totally re-written.

Jim wrote:
For the folks with half-decent Internet connections, the viewer seems to be able to fetch it from the server faster than the cache, especially if the cache is large. So I think 512 or less improves the performance for those folks.

This statement from Jim is a good example of these issues. Why should the viewer fetch textures faster across the Internet, from the server, than it does from its own cache? Does Internet streaming work faster than a local hard drive? (Maybe it does these days, dunno.)

Logically, local cache should be the fastest data access available... which is why cache is used in the first place. Otherwise bypass cache entirely.

So unless I'm failing to see something (which is always possible-- I'm not on the back-end like you guys)... that texture cache REALLY needs fixed, asap. It's a major bottleneck and new-user deterrent. I would even go so far to say as it's one of the top reasons new people say the SL-type of virtual reality "doesn't work" and then leave. Texture caching has been an issue since the beginning of SL.

Balpien wrote:
This does not appear to me to be a network problem. Something happens then textures stop downloading or partially download. A relog fixes the problem immediately.


Yeah I agree Balpien. I've noticed this consistently for years. I've heard over and over "that's probably a network problem; the Internet has been messing up quite a bit lately"... but if that were the case, nothing would work. This is my "standard debate" with Timer Warner Cable. "It must be your router." "No... if it were my router it would always mess up. It would be consistently faulty. As it is, it's only faulty during your peak periods. That's not a coincidence." They hate that.

So yup, I believe there are bottlenecks, code glitches, and repetitive failures to perform when it comes to textures-- and maybe elsewhere. I can't honestly say whether it's limited to textures or whether it affects other areas as well... but textures are the visible (or not visible) tangible results. I do have to wonder why it is after all these years that we can walk through a region and suddenly everything just freezes, we can't move, we wait and wait, and then everything starts up again as if nothing was wrong. This happens regularly.

That's a bottleneck. Server side, viewer side, both... whatever it is, it shouldn't exist in a professional online system. I'm not blaming Inworldz; it is most certainly inherited function. But it also most certainly needs fixed.

Yup, we know the devs are working on it. You guys have nothing but my full admiration for heroic-level efforts and significant accomplishments. It's just that I consider this particular problem to be one of the oldest and most damaging problems on VR. Why most damaging? Because I believe it's one of the top reasons newbies leave VR when they check it out. Hard to use a 3D world when textures don't load. That comes down to some serious potential $$$.



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