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 Post subject: "Rubber Band" Bug
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:27 am 
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Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2010 8:45 am
Posts: 117
Since 2 Days now I did discover (with my vehiicles) a new bug with the Physcis System.
It is a bit wired to explain.
First I expired it with my large ship (this caused the simcrash bye the way).
When I initialise oone of my vehicles, they are like glued at the point they are.
When I move them than manual somewhere (while beeing physcial) they do automatical return to the point they were before (the movement). The effect does even happen when I move the vehicle manual into a other sim (1 sim or mor ebetween the original "glued" point. Than the ship trys to to return there, but hangs at the simborder (this causes with the big ship the simcrash)
This happens even to totaly scriptless Vehicle models of mine (I did delete all movement relevant scripts and kept only the physcis system)

I thought it is only because my ship is so big...
So I importet my smaler shuttle, that works perfect on the maingrid.
It got the same behavior.

The strange thing does even survive taking (into inventory) and rereezing the Vehicle (the taken vehicle).
It seems that the prims itselfe save once (I know not when this happens) a XYZ position and do notmore forget them.

A temporary solution is to Copydupe the vehicle (Alt - D). Than this new vehicle works some time correctly. But earlier or later (tried 2 times yesterday) it gets the same strange annomaly.

I do not know what causes this problem sorry, so I can not give a idea for a sure reproduction.


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 Post subject: Re: "Rubber Band" Bug
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 1:48 am 

Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2010 10:03 am
Posts: 2582
I have been observing this very problem. It seems to only happen, though not always, when the object has a lot of prims. Maybe the mass value gets too large, not certain yet.

Now there is one highly likely possibility. Because hover, buoyancy, look-at, and the move-target are object properties, it might be possible one of those was set. These properties are not reset one script reset or object rez, so the object will have those properties reinstated on rez.

Xentor, is your ship moving using the vehicles functions? Or, is it moving using the basic forces functions (llSetHover, llApplyImpulse, etc.)?

I wrote this mantis report several months ago that covers this problem:
http://bugs.inworldz.com/mantis/view.php?id=2496


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 Post subject: Re: "Rubber Band" Bug
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 4:54 am 
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Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2010 8:45 am
Posts: 117
It uses a lsl Vehicle based script.
(Basicly from the base you showed me once when these fuctions did begin to work)
None of te named functions are used in the ships. Ok only once applyimpulse to break the ship after stop pressing the movementkeys.

But even if, why does the effect still exist even when I delete all scripts inside the craft (Only not the physic configuration whitch contains not 1 movement function)?

But I think you are right, it must be the primcomplexity.
I made a paralleltest with my small glider (the one you did ride with me) It does not show this problem, and uses the same scripts.

But the problem did oocur like said since more or less yesterday (timezones, from my time I could to say 2 days ago). Before I had this problem never, and on Maingrid It happened to never. (There I use the shuttle I tried yesterday since physics works without problems)

key pilot;
vector pos;
vector linear;
vector angular;
integer under_power;
integer listenindex;
float throttle;
integer cloaked;
integer edges1;
integer levels1;
integer move;
integer rotate;
vector vel;
float speed;

vehiclesettings()
{
  //-------------------------------------//
  //Vehiclefunctions
  llSetVehicleType(VEHICLE_TYPE_AIRPLANE);   
  // linear friction
  llSetVehicleVectorParam(VEHICLE_LINEAR_FRICTION_TIMESCALE, <100.0, 100.0, 100.0>);
  // uniform angular friction
  llSetVehicleFloatParam(VEHICLE_ANGULAR_FRICTION_TIMESCALE, 1);
  // linear motor
  llSetVehicleVectorParam(VEHICLE_LINEAR_MOTOR_DIRECTION, <0.0, 0.0, 0.0>);
  llSetVehicleFloatParam(VEHICLE_LINEAR_MOTOR_TIMESCALE, 1.0);
  llSetVehicleFloatParam(VEHICLE_LINEAR_MOTOR_DECAY_TIMESCALE, 1.0);
  // angular motor
  llSetVehicleVectorParam(VEHICLE_ANGULAR_MOTOR_DIRECTION, <0.0, 0.0, 0.0>);
  llSetVehicleFloatParam(VEHICLE_ANGULAR_MOTOR_TIMESCALE, 1.0);
  llSetVehicleFloatParam(VEHICLE_ANGULAR_MOTOR_DECAY_TIMESCALE, 2.0);
  // hover
  llSetVehicleFloatParam(VEHICLE_HOVER_HEIGHT, 0.0);
  llSetVehicleFloatParam(VEHICLE_HOVER_EFFICIENCY, 0.0);
  llSetVehicleFloatParam(VEHICLE_HOVER_TIMESCALE, 360.0);
  llSetVehicleFloatParam(VEHICLE_BUOYANCY, 0.981);
  // linear deflection
  llSetVehicleFloatParam(VEHICLE_LINEAR_DEFLECTION_EFFICIENCY, 0.0);
  llSetVehicleFloatParam(VEHICLE_LINEAR_DEFLECTION_TIMESCALE, 00.0);
  // angular deflection
  llSetVehicleFloatParam(VEHICLE_ANGULAR_DEFLECTION_EFFICIENCY, 0.25);
  llSetVehicleFloatParam(VEHICLE_ANGULAR_DEFLECTION_TIMESCALE, 10.0);
  // vertical attractor
  llSetVehicleFloatParam(VEHICLE_VERTICAL_ATTRACTION_EFFICIENCY, 0.75);
  llSetVehicleFloatParam(VEHICLE_VERTICAL_ATTRACTION_TIMESCALE, 1.0);
  // banking
  llSetVehicleFloatParam(VEHICLE_BANKING_EFFICIENCY, 0.0);
  llSetVehicleFloatParam(VEHICLE_BANKING_MIX, 1.0);
  llSetVehicleFloatParam(VEHICLE_BANKING_TIMESCALE, 360.0);
  // default rotation of local frame
  llSetVehicleRotationParam(VEHICLE_REFERENCE_FRAME, <0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0>);
  // removed vehicle flags
  llRemoveVehicleFlags(VEHICLE_FLAG_NO_DEFLECTION_UP | VEHICLE_FLAG_HOVER_WATER_ONLY | VEHICLE_FLAG_HOVER_TERRAIN_ONLY | VEHICLE_FLAG_HOVER_UP_ONLY | VEHICLE_FLAG_LIMIT_MOTOR_UP | VEHICLE_FLAG_LIMIT_ROLL_ONLY);
  // set vehicle flags
  llSetVehicleFlags(VEHICLE_FLAG_HOVER_GLOBAL_HEIGHT);
  //--------------------------------------------------// 
}

default
{
  state_entry()
  {
      linear = ZERO_VECTOR;
      angular = ZERO_VECTOR;
      under_power = FALSE;
      throttle = 0.0;
      vehiclesettings();
      llSetTimerEvent(0.05);
    }
   
    on_rez(integer sparam)
    {
      llResetScript();
    }
    changed(integer chg)
    {
      if (chg & CHANGED_LINK)
      {
        pilot  = llAvatarOnSitTarget();
        // Got on
        if (pilot != NULL_KEY)
        {
          llRequestPermissions(pilot, PERMISSION_TAKE_CONTROLS);
        }
        // Got off
        else
        {
          llReleaseControls();
          llSetStatus(STATUS_PHYSICS, FALSE);
        }
      }
    }
    run_time_permissions(integer permissions)
    {
      if (permissions & PERMISSION_TAKE_CONTROLS)
      {
        llTakeControls( CONTROL_FWD |
                        CONTROL_BACK |
                        CONTROL_LEFT |
                        CONTROL_RIGHT |
                        CONTROL_ROT_LEFT |
                        CONTROL_ROT_RIGHT |
                        CONTROL_UP |
                        CONTROL_DOWN |
                        CONTROL_LBUTTON,
                        TRUE, FALSE);
        vector current_pos = llGetPos();
        llSetVehicleFloatParam(VEHICLE_HOVER_HEIGHT, current_pos.z);
        pos = current_pos;
        llSetStatus(STATUS_PHYSICS, TRUE);
      }
    }
    link_message(integer link, integer num, string message, key id)
    {
      //Controllinput messages not relevant here
    }
    timer()
    {
      if (move == 1)
      { 
        llSetVehicleVectorParam(VEHICLE_LINEAR_MOTOR_DIRECTION, linear);
      }
      if (rotate == 1)
      { 
        llSetVehicleVectorParam(VEHICLE_ANGULAR_MOTOR_DIRECTION,angular);
      }
      if (move == 0)
      { 
        if (llGetVel() != (<0,0,0>))
        {
          llApplyImpulse(llGetMass()/2*-llGetVel(),FALSE);
        }
      }
    }


Your Mantis Reports fits not, I did write a own
http://bugs.inworldz.com/mantis/view.php?id=2716


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 Post subject: Re: "Rubber Band" Bug
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:10 am 

Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2010 10:03 am
Posts: 2582
Thanks for writing the mantis report. I had not done that yet.

Quote:
This happens even to totaly scriptless Vehicle models of mine (I did delete all movement relevant scripts and kept only the physcis system)


Yes, this is why my first suspicion was that one of the force based object properties might have been involved. Now that I have finished my work this release cycle on vehicles compatibility (extant bug notwithstanding), I can look into this problem. I wish I could give you a sense of when this might be fixed but I am in the investigation phase, only scant clues what might be broken.


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 Post subject: Re: "Rubber Band" Bug
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:56 am 
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Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2010 8:45 am
Posts: 117
I wonder only that I did not expire it before tuesday Wednesday. Nor on main nor on Betagrid.
Means that the prolem must have been intensed with the new update that I see it suddenly.
We use the shuttle I exportet to Beta since a year problemless.


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 Post subject: Re: "Rubber Band" Bug
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 11:25 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 7:07 pm
Posts: 7936
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
Xentor, if it's the same object that was involved with the crash, it certainly may have a lasting problem from that (for example, properties as Balpien mentioned) and may need to be manually fixed. Have you done a Take, then re-rezzed the object from Inventory? Then added the scripts back in, and reset the scripts?


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 Post subject: Re: "Rubber Band" Bug
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 11:35 am 
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Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2010 8:45 am
Posts: 117
Yep, once glued, only a alt D duplication without inventory fixes the problem temporary for the duplicated ship.


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 Post subject: Re: "Rubber Band" Bug
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 3:00 pm 

Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2010 10:03 am
Posts: 2582
I've spent three hours trying to reproduce these problems.

The first one is the 'fake physics' as Xentor calls it. Only once was I able to make that happen where the physical flag can be toggled back and forth but the object does not become physical. That object is hanging out in IB7. It was created out of newly minted prims too, so there are no old proto-member compatibility issues. Multiple attempts to make that bug happen have failed.

The second problem is the case where making the object physical causes it to leap great distances in a single bound. That 'superman' object is reproducible every single time from an old object I have in inventory. If I create a new object just like the old one, though made from newly minted prims, it behaves correctly. So, this case (for my objects), is likely that the object was created on beta a very long time ago when there were issues with the internal representation.

Now Xentor's ship was also created from new prims since it was imported very recently. I have no clue yet what is going on. I need an oxp of that ship. I do not need the scripts for now.


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