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 Post subject: Re: Parcel Privacy Issue
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 5:44 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:49 am
Posts: 2054
Yesh Benski, zactly. That's why I feel Linden Lab yet once again "solved" the solution half-baked and easiest-way out.

"Hey, the easiest way is to simply determine if someone is on the parcel and make other people not be able to see avatars in the parcel. LET'S DO THAT!"

Gah.

Proper solution: orient it to group instead of parcel. The parcel owner can create a private group... with the second member being an alt if necessary (Inworldz allows single-avatar groups, which makes this lots easier). If you're not in the group, you can't see avatars on parcels. If you're in the group, you can. And vice versa; if this feature is ON the parcel owner can't see avatars outside the group either... thus preventing "intrusion". If having guests, simply turn the feature off during that period of time.

Advantages:
1. No ban lines to impede anyone's travel
2. Easy to implement and set (group checks are already a part of the system)
3. No security orbs required
4. It's different and better than how SL does it. ;D



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 Post subject: Re: Parcel Privacy Issue
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 6:26 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2013 8:18 am
Posts: 33
All this talk of privacy. Remember this is a social network. The idea is to be social. So many people come over from that other grid, look for people to connect with, then leave when no one is to be found. I understand there are times people want a little privacy. But lets not forget that is not the original intent of virtual worlds.



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 Post subject: Re: Parcel Privacy Issue
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 6:49 pm 

Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2011 8:15 am
Posts: 1105
Location: South Cackalacky
Door_Mouse wrote:
All this talk of privacy. Remember this is a social network. The idea is to be social. So many people come over from that other grid, look for people to connect with, then leave when no one is to be found. I understand there are times people want a little privacy. But lets not forget that is not the original intent of virtual worlds.


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 Post subject: Re: Parcel Privacy Issue
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:03 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:49 am
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Social network is fine. That doesn't mean there aren't times I wants privacy... and I'm a dwagon. Being social in RL doesn't mean we're social ALL the time. That's why house doors haz locks. ; )



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 Post subject: Re: Parcel Privacy Issue
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:11 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2010 5:27 pm
Posts: 1097
ok I have to say....

Virtual worlds are what each individual makes it, for them. Some like privacy that maybe they cant get in RL and some are very social. Some are a mix too.

For us it is we have a private region. We socialize but it is nice to just be. Maybe that is be alone or just being.

Sooo many different peeps and great discussion.


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 Post subject: Re: Parcel Privacy Issue
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:30 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2011 9:57 am
Posts: 937
I like it both ways. This is why IW is so great. You can have your social aria on ground level, Fix your sim all nice for visiters and wave at people sailing by on the oceans. Then for your privet times you have plenty of prims left to put up a lovely sky box even full sim size if you like at about 5,000m and most all viewers cams cant go that far. Run your radar and you will see the person attempting to fly up that high to perv you. :-)



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 Post subject: Re: Parcel Privacy Issue
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 12:15 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 7:07 pm
Posts: 7936
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
Benski wrote:
Snoots Dwagon wrote:
What about if they're in the same parcel above the 100m ban line limit?
Indeed won't work if avatars are in the same parcel.
It's not implemented here yet so there's no reason it cannot be more thorough and consistent here, e.g. make the privacy behavior correspond to the same rules as parcel access:

- if your avatar is in a location that would be allowed/accessible if the parcel had restricted access, you could be considered "outside the parcel" and thus still affected by the privacy option (e.g. you would not be able to see inside from above the private parcel location), even if you were above the parcel.

- if the privacy option applied the same rules as parcel access, you could achieve some measure of privacy just by setting the parcel access to private as well (ban lines). Users outside the parcel, including above it, would neither be able to enter nor see inside. If you did not want to deny access to the parcel, you could still enable privacy and then either manually ban specific users who get too close on your parcel or allow a security orb / script to automate that.

- I see no reason to limit the external view from within the parcel. The outside does not have the privacy enabled (unless of course it does...) It's just that no avatar or prim updates would be sent to avatars outside the parcel, and that would also include say/shout chat messages from both avatars and objects. I don't remember the privacy option doing that in SL but if it does, again we don't have to emulate that unless that's the way our land owners want it implemented. Of course if it turns out there's a technical reason for making it two-way, then we might have to, but in the absence of a technical reason to make it a two-way, it seems to me that the option should only filter the view from outside.

Regardless, the point is that if the "filter boundary" matches the parcel access boundary, the land parcel owner retains control and it doesn't make some cases of this option useless.


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 Post subject: Re: Parcel Privacy Issue
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 7:15 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:49 am
Posts: 2054
There is another advantage of the group-based privacy issue.

What if someone owned a private island but also wanted privacy. Yes, they could turn off island outside access... but that means people would think something is wrong with the island if it normally allows visitors.

However, with a simple group-visibility option, if one is not in the "privacy group"... they could still visit the private island, but the island residents (group members) would not be visible to them (non-group members). Further, the visitor would not be visible to island members, preventing two things:

1) "Intrusion" factors when people want total privacy
2) The island members themselves "perving" visitors and unknowingly following them around.

If we have this kind of privacy, it has to be both ways... group agents blocked from visitor view and visitor agents blocked from group view. That seems to me the very easiest way to accomplish this task, and the most efficient.

Consider too the ease of implementation: it's a lot easier to check group membership than to check whether it's a sim, owned parcel, rented parcel, parcel-my-friend lends me, etc. Just check to see if group privacy is set... if the visitor is part of group or not, viola! Plus, using GROUPS as a security setting, it allows the region/parcel owner to allow access to as many people as desired. Plus if I'm right, there is already a section of code that allows access to group members only. That function could be extended to include a security setting and recognition.



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 Post subject: Re: Parcel Privacy Issue
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 2:51 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 30, 2010 12:06 pm
Posts: 3379
Location: Netherlands
kelly4u lynn wrote:
I like it both ways. This is why IW is so great. You can have your social aria on ground level, Fix your sim all nice for visiters and wave at people sailing by on the oceans. Then for your privet times you have plenty of prims left to put up a lovely sky box even full sim size if you like at about 5,000m and most all viewers cams cant go that far. Run your radar and you will see the person attempting to fly up that high to perv you. :-)


That high is indeed hard. Just make sure there are no structures inbetween as focus point, I have tested and without too many issues I was capable to see my alt standing on ground level (+23m) while I stood on my 3,000m platform.

Ever since SL, what I do first with my viewer, is turn off camera targets, often had "why you camming me" remarks on SL. I always cam around, but don't pervcam anybody, yet the paranoia of some people, good thing we can turn camera targets off.

Personally I do not need such privacy, so the whole topic is kinda beyond me. I do know by experience that SL's solutions are just a joke, they do not work.
It only looks at who is on the parcel and who not. That is it, so with the idea that I can easely cam around to at least 3k meters around me, just being on the parcel usually is enough. The fact that hide avatars on parcel does go the whole way is pointless, when banlines are not.

The group solution is a great idea. Partners can make a group on their own, when they want privacy, or you can use it to just see yourself while getting dressed.



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 Post subject: Re: Parcel Privacy Issue
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 4:24 pm 

Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2010 10:03 am
Posts: 2582
I find the parcel privacy approach rife with problems because it is only making invisible the avatars in the parcel. Everything else is still visible. I can well understand two or more avatars, having their shared but private moment, might prefer to keep their presence invisible. also, it turns out this kind of invisibility has some nice uses in RP (the cloak of invisibility). So, instead of parcel invisibility, why not just add the ability of avatars to make themselves and and all attachments invisible. Make it a personal option instead of some funky parcel attribute.


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